Saturday, April 19, 2008


Did the brief, fatherly relationship between Tony Stark and Peter Parker still happen post-"One More Day"?
Brevoort: "Yes."
Does Tony Stark know who Peter Parker is?
Brevoort: "No."

So Stark doesn't remember why he invited Peter Parker to live with him or why they formed a father/son relationship?

And presumably he doesn't remember why he designed a suit of spider-armour for Peter, since as far as he knows, there's no connection between Spider-Man and Peter Parker?

Not a messy retcon at all then...


  1. For someone who doesn't read Spidey anymore, you're worrying about this far more than you ought to. ;-)

  2. I know, I know. It's just so cack-handed and clumsy that it annoys me to no end, even though I'm ostensibly shot of it.

    Still, JRJR's coming back for a six issue stint, so I'll probably pick those up, tip-ex out the words and write my own story.

  3. My explanation still stands.

    Everything happened EXACTLY as we read it. Then Mephisto altered everyone's memories so they think it happened differently.

    The entire Marvel Universe is suffering from False Memory Syndrome. Why is that harder to believe than Thor or Galactus?

  4. Oh it's not hard to believe, it's just messy.

    Does Stark remember that he built the spider armour for Peter, but not remember why? Does he remember building the armour at all? Does he just think he built it for Spider-Man, without Peter being involved, even though he showed Peter around the lab when it was being built?

    Doesn't Stark think it's at all odd that he invited Peter and his family to live with him when there's no connection between him and Peter?

    Did everyone just forget that Peter and Spider-Man are one and the same, or did they also forget that they once knew?

    Marvel say that everyone remembers the unmasking, but doesn't remember who they saw. So why doesn't anyone check the video tapes? Surely Jonah would be going straight to the archives?

    (Ironically, this is exactly how Peter himself eventually remembered the Sentry.)

    Daredevil never "found out"; he met Peter and Spidey separately and noticed that their heartbeats were identical. So what did he forget? Did he forget that he made that connection? Did he forget that he's met both of Peter's identities?

    To be honest, I don't mind the mind-wipe (except for Norman; I think him forgetting is a waste), but it's just messy and inconsistent.

  5. They explained the video & new footage as all being wiped too.

    Personally, I'd rather they hadn't done the unmasking at all, since they always had to come up with a way to put it back in its box (secret identity is pretty essential to the character), and it was always going to be messy.

    As for Norman... he's forgotten before. Nothing to say he won't remember again.

    And DD will be explained shortly, apparently.

  6. They certainly didn't explain away the video wiping from the start...

    I hope the Black Cat still knows, somehow.

    I never liked the unmasking either. It was clearly just an attention-grabbing stunt, but what Millar wants, Millar gets, let someone else clean up the mess. It was inevitable that it would get reversed, but I was hoping that it would be a cleaner fix than the one we got.

    My main problem is that I am not convinced by Marvel's argument that the reason Spider-Man has been rubbish the past few years is because the character is married. I mean, "The Other" is still going to be a pile of fetid filth, whatever Spidey's marital status, and Norman and Gwen getting it on has nothing to do with MJ wearing a ring on her finger.

    There was nothing stopping them writing decent stories when Pete and MJ were married, and they're just using it as an excuse. From what I've gathered, the stories coming out post-cosmic-divorce aren't much better than what came before.

    Incidentally, I'm also really disappointed that they retconned Aunt May back into a doddery old biddy after all the good work JMS and JRJR did to reinvent her. Bah!

  7. I'm sure we could argue this back and forth forever. I still think married Peter breaks the character - and despite any number of quality Spidey runs over the last 20 years, it still took something fun away from the premise. But we're clearly never going to agree about that. ;-)

    I would agree with you (to a point) about May, except I don't think she's TOO dodery now (ironically as she with Lee) - but I also think JMS tended to make her TOO young at times (the whole May/Jarvis shagathon just turned my stomach).

    Personally, I'd prefer it if certain characters still knew the identity - Cat, DD, maybe even May - as each of the stories wherein they made the discovery are, in my mind, classics... and to have them discover again now (if they ever do that) would just be weak. Having said that, wouldn't it have been even MORE convoluted to have Mephisto's mindwipe be selective... "Make me a list of the people who it's OK to know the secret."

  8. Yes, we could argue for ages, and it's not worth it!

    This retcon is trying to do too many things at once, and no one seems to be aware of what exactly it's changing and what it's leaving alone. If all they wanted to do was get rid of MJ and restore the secret identity, there surely must have been a better way to do it?

    There's also an issue of faith here, I think. Marvel can go on and on about how this is clearing away all the crap, but they're the ones who foisted the crap on the character in the first place. For all that they're saying the unmasking and the organic webshooters and the marriage were bad ideas, they were the ones who put all of them at the centre of their big sales events.

    I do agree about DD/May/Cat though. It's a real shame that those stories have been undone.

  9. "...they're the ones who foisted the crap on the character in the first place."

    Yeah, but the people who foisted the wedding on us are not the same people who undid it - and even the people tasked with handling it at the time thought it was a bad idea, and rushed.

    You talk about Marvel as though they're an individual - but creators and opinions change, and hindsight is a pretty amazing learning tool.

  10. True, but the people who foisted "The Other", the Goblin Stacy Twins and the unmasking are the same ones who put this "bold new direction" in place; they thought all that crap was a good idea too, so I'm not going to immediately fall into line when they unleash their latest bright idea.

    (and yes, I know the creative teams are different, but the editors pushing the storylines are the same; Alonso, Brevoort, Quesada)

    Basically, where you see a bright new direction and a clearing of the decks, I see another pointless rejig, and I'm not convinced this one is working any better than any of the others we've had in the past ten or fifteen years.

    Honestly Rol, when it comes to "One More Day" (and Bendis, although he's not relevant here), you come across almost as an optimist! :P

  11. I have seen the light!

    Or perhaps I just got tired of seeing the dark. ;-)